Katarzyna Dębska, Jerzy Mączyński
This Q+A column focuses on off-/project-/artist-led spaces and otherwise difficult to label projects, and the people that keep them going. The goal is to highlight and chronicle such initiatives across the region that we currently refer to as Central and East Europe.
How are you?
Thank you, okay 🙂 We’ve just come back to Berlin for a few days, so still a bit in train travel mode today. Hoping you are good too <3
How did it start and, dare I ask…how will it end?
Hoping it won’t end fast, but all the time we have at the back of our minds a thought that for some reason we might be forced to leave the space some day, we constantly think how to develop it towards a more migratory “being.” That’s why we also prefer to call SAUNA an initiative – at some point a few years ago we’ve added the word “platform” to its name – rather than link it only with a physical space – although we feel very attached to it; we love the pool that launched the beginning of many things we do now.
Courtesy of SAUNA.
photo: Helena Majewska. Courtesy of SAUNA.
What do you need?
Good question… we have a need of making things happen, trying things out, of meetings, crossings, but do we need anything else? Also patience, focusing, and sometimes consciously narrowing down our activities to not make too much at once – with SAUNA, step by step we are developing the concept of making less but with bigger awareness, to avoid overproduction and to always remember to find our own pace in it.
Who/what has held you up?
Time 🙂 Sometimes it’s difficult, we had to work out the mechanism of joining our artistic practices with running SAUNA, and thanks to that process we’ve discovered that it’s in a way fulfilling us, that it’s not detached, that it’s giving us a laboratory to experiment and meet with people.
Is it sustainable?
Yes and no. We could try to keep it going only from what we get as donations at the events, but sometimes it’s not enough if you want to cover all the space’s costs, production costs, if possible, have a symbolic fee for the artists with whom we collaborate and push things further. So being honest, we are also looking for opportunities for support, although we still believe that you can create valuable and beautiful ideas and works without big budgets, and we know that growing from the DIY/underground scene made us stronger and helped us to deal with difficult tasks, to rely on ourselves, but as we all know art is also work, referring to the recent discussions in Polish media… and it’s just nice to make what you love (but still it takes time and energy) and being able to sustain your basic everyday needs – it’s the same with running SAUNA, if that sounds clear and makes sense…
photo: Helena Majewska. Courtesy of SAUNA.
What do you measure?
We find it really interesting for SAUNA’s practice to look for the connections between what is happening locally here in Warsaw/Poland and people working not only here, meaning from different parts of the world, how and what thoughts can be shared, so if the measure can be defined as a goal, then a dialogue, exploring affinities in differences.
Are you “independent”? How do you define “independent”?
For us, independence is mainly about how freely we think about what we do, about the program, which is not directed by anything from above. Firstly, the freedom of choice, and coming back to a previous question, finding our own pace, which doesn’t mean being cut off from the things happening around us – we think there is a big strength in finding a context and being in touch with other initiatives and people of similar values, exploring how we are intertwined with each other, as nothing exists without something else, even if this “something” isn’t identical with us or is against our values – then it’s still interesting to position ourselves in relation to it, because that can maybe help to define also what we don’t want to be dependent on.
Who/what is your kin?
If “kin” may relate to an idea that we feel, then that probably for us means trying to not let ourselves be defined by one scheme 😉 That’s the kin closest to our hearts — but in all that, still keeping the program coherent, building it consequently and organically, following our intuition for observing audiovisual stuff happening around us… We are artists ourselves so we guess it’s our aim also to look from different perspectives at the same time.
Why do you stay/what keeps you going?
SAUNA gives us a lot of power, hope, joy, and tears; so as not to sound pompous, there were moments we were tired, of course. Each time we come back to SAUNA we feel it’s worth it again. Maybe coming back is not the best word, as SAUNA is in a way a strong part of us; we talk about it constantly, things are growing very organically there.
Is it enough?
If that would refer to the previous question then we can say yes, that’s enough to motivate us and believe in what we do, even if there are ups and downs.
Looking at this question from another side – we guess there can be a value in saying that “yes, I’m enough” and it’s not about passiveness but about letting yourself to be imperfect – and we feel that we need it very much while doing what we do; it helps us to not fall apart because of potential stress, pressure, and expectations.
What’s the most memorable project you’ve realized?
It’s difficult to evaluate and pick, as honestly each one has brought new reflections and pushed us towards the next. We feel it’s like a cause and effect chain; we make one project and because of it, start to think about another one, but richer in better or worse experiences, learning all the time. From the most recent activities, we are energised by the SAUNA festival: saturation, which we organised in Warsaw in February 2026, mainly because of the fact that we could invite as guests, artists and people with whom we’ve collaborated over many years – bringing the local Polish and international contexts together, as that’s one of SAUNA’s goals – and meet them all at once and in one place, in the pool. It was just so enlightening and surreal; some of them knew each other before while others only knew of one another from the online connections, there were many moments like this.
What has been the biggest surprise?
The people who came to join this event as participants, listeners, viewers. Really. And although events which we were doing until now in SAUNA have been more intimate because of the limitations of the cameral space (the pool is not a very big space, it has a capacity of around max 40-50ppl, which creates this unique atmosphere). This is very important for us to make everyone who comes to feel safe, relaxed, treated with care, and if we can, we try to have a chat with anyone who wants to. Even though the festival was bigger in scale, we still kept that vibe thanks to the audience engagement and the atmosphere between the artists.
Who/What is your biggest inspiration?
Maybe traveling? It contains many aspects in one – meeting new people, experiencing new points of view, and trying to understand them.
What is your biggest challenge?
Hmmm, maybe limitations? We believe they can be both bad and good, constructive and at the same deconstructive, letting things be built, rebuilt, developed, redefined. Being confronted with limits and asking ourselves what our limits are for us, has usually been both crucial and fruitful.
Courtesy of SAUNA.
SAUNA PLATFORM – the space itself is located in a former spa complex – a sauna and pool – situated in the underground of Warsaw in a modernist style building (a former Polish-Soviet friendship building) from the 80’s, where meetings, concerts, audiovisual events and exhibitions are taking place. It has become a platform gathering people, an art space, a label, and a migrating initiative run by composer, saxophonist, and producer Jerzy Mączyński and visual artist Katarzyna Dębska.
https://www.instagram.com/saunaplatform
The Off-Space Q+A column was created by Katie Zazenski for the now-defunct BLOK Magazine in July 2020 as a way to platform the independent, artist-run spaces and projects across the CEE region. The archive (which as of April 2026 is unfortunately no longer accessible) was intended, as is this new iteration, to be a space for platforming the critical and often under-recognized role that these projects, collectives, spaces, and people play in the ecosystem of contemporary art.
Spaces/projects featured in the original index: Stroboskop Art Space (Warsaw), U10 (Belgrade), ODD (Bucharest), Studio PRÁM (Prague), Plague (Krasnodar), Złoty Kiosk (Wrocław), Heerz Tooya (Veliko Turnovo), 427 (Riga), Super Bien! (Berlin), Noch (Odesa), hoast (Vienna), Patara Gallery (Tbilisi), DOM Gallery (Riga), Hoib Gallery (Tallinn), Editorial Projects (Vilnius), Aether (Sofia), MATCA (Cluj-Napoca), Annenstrasse 53 (Graz), Post – Yu+ th Art Biennial (Podgorica), Hlebzawod (Kyiv), Kyiv Lodge (Kyiv), Galeria UL (Gdańsk), LOL [Law of Life] (Berlin, Hamburg, Leipzig), SDK Sunflower (Warsaw), INDECIS (Timişoara), Apiece (Vilnius)
